Smoking ban is go, allegedly.

[zotz]

Decided unanimously, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3996587.stm">according to the BBC. Still, after the huge margin in the entirely fair and unbiassed public consultation, what else were they going to do.

Also, am I right in thinking that the inquest that found that two policemen had unlawfully killed a man (who was carrying a table-leg in a poly bag which they believed was a shotgun) had been told by a pathologist that said dead man had been shot in the back of the head rather than the front?

Ah. Side of the head, apparently, facing slightly more away from the officers than towards. Strange that more hasn't been made of that point.

Comments

[shaunotd.livejournal.com]

My point, really, was that there's been enough leeway her for the story to be painted either way.

If the guy was pissed & lairy, that would make the call even harder...

[nickys.livejournal.com]

As I recall from the reporting at the time, he'd stopped for a single pint on his way home and was not drunk.

[taoist-goth.livejournal.com]

I dunno about you but if a couple of armed police told me to drop the gun and raise my hands I would drop everything I was carrying and, well, raise my hands.

Why didn't this happen?

Armstrong

[nickys.livejournal.com]

Because he wasn't carrying a gun and he had no reason to think they were talking to him, I guess.

Re: Armstrong

[taoist-goth.livejournal.com]

If two coppers shouted "Drop the Gun" within earshot while you were walking down the street, even if you thought they didn't mean you, wouldn't you at least look around to see where they were and what was going on? You'd completely ignore them twice???

Re: Armstrong

[zotz]

Turning doesn't seem to have done him much good when he did get round to it.

Re: Armstrong

[taoist-goth.livejournal.com]

Because he had already ignored them twice. I believe they have to give a suspect two verbal warnings, after which they can apprehend him. If I were in their position and genuinely believed he had a shotgun, I'd be crapping myself if he spun around after ignoring both my challenges.

Re: Armstrong

[zotz]

Yes, but one of the other questions was how far he'd turned, and in what manner. The path report contradicted what the officers had said about that, which makes things much more complicated.

Re: Armstrong

[shaunotd.livejournal.com]

And even the best-trained eye-witnesses often genuinely remember things the way they *should* have happened, rather than the way they did. Which reminds me: were there any other witnesses? I assume not...

Re: Armstrong

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. It's a nightmarishly difficult position to be in, that of the police in this case (and I'm not usually the first to defend police either). As far as they knew, they were about to get blasted with a shotgun. From their perspective, they had to shoot him before he opened fire. Waiting till he'd turned all the way round... well, by that point they could be dead. It doesn't seem entirely unreasonable if they fired as he was turning, because the turning towards them (without dropping the apparent gun) must have been seen as a threat in itself.

That's not to say it was the poor bloke's fault either, of course. Unfortunately it just appears to have been one of those things, an accident that probably couldn't have been avoided.

Re: Armstrong

[taoist-goth.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I believe there was no malicious intent on the part of anyone involved, nor any real negligence. It was just a tragic mistake.

[nickys.livejournal.com]

Actually, if I heard someone yelling "Drop the gun!" my first instinct would be to run away as quickly as possible.


He was not a terrorist with a gun. He was an ordinary man going about his business and committing no crime.
Trying to blame him for what happenned is both wrong and futile.

Possibly blaming whatever idiot told the police he had a shotgun would be reasonable, but blaming the victim himself is not even remotely reasonable.

[taoist-goth.livejournal.com]

"Actually, if I heard someone yelling "Drop the gun!" my first instinct would be to run away as quickly as possible."

Yeah but in which direction? If you haven't taken stock of the situation then you have no idea where the Police are or where the "gunman" is. Think about it.


"blaming the victim himself is not even remotely reasonable"

I'm not blaming the victim, just trying to understand what happened and why he didn't react to the Police. Seems a bit...odd. The only thing I can think of is that he thought they were chavs pissing about, if they were behind him, and he thought he'd ignore them and they might bugger off.

Armstrong

[nickys.livejournal.com]

> just trying to understand what happened and why he didn't react to the Police

I would imagine that he didn't react to them because they were yelling "drop the gun" and he knew he didn't have a gun.

As you say, he might have thought it was a wind up and been ignoring it.


> Yeah but in which direction?

Round the nearest corner if there was one close enough.

Otherwise ducking behind something like a wheelie bin or a car might be a normal reaction to believing that there was someone with a gun in the street.