Whine whine whine.

[zotz]

The ever-provocative George Monbiot has written this article about the acceptability of racism concerning Gypsies and travellers. A lot of people would do well to read and think on this. Locally, there's been a campaign against the word Ned being used for working-class blokes generally, which is apparently found offensive by those who don't consider themselves drunken troublemakers. And, of course, I see a lot of use of the word Townie, which I personally object to as by any sensible definition I'm a Townie - I live in a town, I've always lived in towns and I'm not a student, which I think covers both possible meanings. So when I see approving mentions by people I had thought were my friends of Townies perhaps being drowned or killed . . . it annoys me a little. Not a great deal, as I know it's not going to be followed by any action (being all mouth is definitely a good thing in cases like this, and thankfully these people are all mouth) and it obviously just hasn't occurred to them that they could possibly be causing offence. Nevertheless, I'm saddened by people's apparent need to find some sort of scapegoat to make themselves feel better about themselves, and at the thoughtlessness of otherwise very intelligent and humane individuals.

Oh dear. Just call me a humorless didactic killjoy.

Oh, and by the way, in case you didn't see it in the news yesterday . . . we rock.

Shirley Porter, though, doesn't. The legal travesty continues, and those of you of a furry persuasion (or even those who've just been spending too much time looking at strange websites) will be pleased to see that the evidence seems to favour being nice to Badgers after all.

Message, thankfully, ends. Goodnight.

Comments

[girfan.livejournal.com]

When I lived in the US, I thought Gypsies were romantic, musical people who lived in the woods. Then, I had two neighbours who were Romany and learned a lot about their history. They lived in the city and didn't travel at all, but still had family that did.

So far, no problem.

But, since I have lived in Bristol, I have come across the other Gypsy-the Irish ones.
Some that come in the shop where I work are lovely and hdo not live up to the stereotype at all.

But, the others that come in are thieves, and they have their filthy children break items in the shop to distract us from their taking of clothes. These are the ones I think of as "pikey" and it annoys me that they have pockets of cash and yet will steal from a charity shop and teach their children that this is acceptable.
(my 2p)

[zotz]

Yes, I accept this, but it goes further than speaking ill of the people who've stolen from you. A lot of people have great ill-will towards travellers without having had any personal bad experiences, and there have been fairly prominent cases of families being refused housing or driven out by locals because they were previously travellers rather than because they got to hang around long enough for people to see if they were actually OK or not.

The general principle holds - we should judge people as individuals rather than members of groups, even if it's tempting not to. After all, going back thirty years most people in Britain would have said much the same about anyone Black or Irish, and claimed the same justification.

[green-amber.livejournal.com]

OT : You're not working at Flip, are you??

[girfan.livejournal.com]

No, I live in Bristol and work for one of the 35 shops that support the St Peter's Hospices (in Bristol).

[original-aj.livejournal.com]

You're a humorless didactic killjoy. Hope that helps.

Doesn't stop you being right, though. Too many people don't really think about what they're saying, and assume that everyone is the same as them. My current least favourite speech manerism is the trend to call something "gay" when they mean bad (as in "not good" rather than the warped "bad means good" .... I'll stop before I disappear up my own semantic backside) or undesireable. Just because you don't mean something to give a certain message doesn't mean that it woan't give that message to someone who is listening. You have to consider your audience.

I suppose it's a bit like the arguments over whether people should make soem effort to spell correctly and use grammar and punctuation. Feel free to exert your right not to - just don't expect me to read it. The onus falls on the person with something to communicate to ensure that they present it in a manner which is clearly intelligible to the recipient, not on the recipient to second guess what they meant.

I'm a humourless didactic killjoy too, I think. But I can spell humour.... ;)

[zotz]

You're a humorless didactic killjoy. Hope that helps.

It certainly does. Thank you. I feel a lot better now.

My current least favourite speech manerism is the trend to call something "gay" when they mean bad

It's a funny one, that. I know some people who use that who have a lot of gay friends.
Don't understand. Maybe it makes some sort of sense within that circle.

But I can spell humour.... ;)

Showoff. *Bp

[original-aj.livejournal.com]

I know that many people have compeletely dissociated calling something gay from the sexuality use of the word. It's probably it being such a common term of abuse when I was at school that makes me react so badly to it - I don't actually see it as a loaded term at all, so it makes it's "new" use meaningless in most contexts, and certainly have a different meaning to me than it has to the person using it. Pass me pipe & slippers, will you?

Racism against Gyspies

[emomisy.livejournal.com]

This has been something which has angered me for quite a while, ever since I heard a Radio 4 documentary about it, including MPs standing up in the Commons making racist speeches.
There was a case recently of some gypsies being evicted from land they owned and were trying to settle on near Cambridge. I never heard what the final outcome was though.
I hope there's a prosecution for this burning of an effigy, but somehow I doubt it.

Re: Racism against Gyspies

[zotz]

The chairman of the organisers is to be formally interviewed by the Police, apparently.

[ex-lark-asc.livejournal.com]

I'm saddened by people's apparent need to find some sort of scapegoat to make themselves feel better about themselves

I take this as a comment on the people in question, not a cause for action at the level of the society. If I wanted to do something about the problem I'd retrain as a counsellor, not start a campaign :)

[zbyszek.livejournal.com]

I always thought that the appellation "Ned" was reserved for drunken troublemakers exclusively. I would certainly deprecate any use of it that tars all local working class blokes with the same brush.
And since when did "townie" become an insult, particularly? I thought it just meant someone who lived in the town rather than the countryside, with the additional meaning in university towns of a non-student. Like you, I have always considered myself a townie, at least in the former sense.
Tricky thing, language. Mutable. But why misappropriate words like that? Why not call a fuckwit a fuckwit and have done with it?

[zotz]

always thought that the appellation "Ned" was reserved for drunken troublemakers exclusively.

So did I, but apparently it's changed while I wasn't looking.

Why not call a fuckwit a fuckwit and have done with it?

Good question. It often strikes me as quite defensive. Obviously sometimes that's understandable, but it's not the best reaction. IMO, at least.