I've said it before and I'll say it again . . .

[zotz]

The rise of the term chav reflects spiteful middle-class snobbery
.

Comments

[steer.livejournal.com]

There's a section on one of those C4 "yoof" programs called "Chav or Chav not" where minor celebs are invited to guess whether random people on the street self-identify as Chav.

[ex-lark-asc.livejournal.com]

The inexorable rise of chav detracting is proof only of what a despicably snobby and curtain-twitching nation we are becoming, once again

Oh don't be such a wet liberal. It reflects the fact that Britain is finally casting off its shell of anal-retentive politeness and giving antisocial scumbags the stigma they deserve.

We had original snobbery, then we had inverse snobbery (which, fascinatingly, actually means I come into my own natural father's class of "Fi-eau-nas", aka little girls who ride horses); now we're getting the backlash against the backlash and going back to calling a scumbag a scumbag, and with venomous satisfaction at finally getting the chance to make their lives a little bit more unpleasant for a change instead of the other way round. But every trip round the cycle reflects a step closer to a balance, which will presumably be a society where it's neither acceptable to hound people solely because they're Not Posh nor to be a shamelessly obnoxious and socially irresponsible sponger.

If what you're complaining about is the broadening of the term 'chav' to include 'anyone who isn't as posh as the person using the word', then I can point you at numerous sources going back as far as ancient Egypt which bemoan the way language is going to hell in a handbasket and the petty hypocrisy of human nature.

[lilitufire.livejournal.com]

I thought they were making chavscum.co.uk up - but they're not.

[zotz]

I don't have a problem with calling scumbags as such, I would just define that by what people do rather than by what they wear. The criticism is, in general, on taste grounds, which is snobbery pure and simple. And inverse snobbery is snobbery also - two wrongs, famously, not cancelling each other out.

shamelessly obnoxious and socially irresponsible sponger.

The majority of people labelled chavs work like anyone else. This assumption (and it is just an assumption) that your stigmatised group are lazy and feckless is just one more example of what I'm talking about.

And snobbery being traditional doesn't make it respectable.

[zotz]

People love having scapegoats.

[lilitufire.livejournal.com]

I am somewhat boggled they're selling T-shirts.

[zotz]

Everyone's got to pay the rent.

[lilitufire.livejournal.com]

Actually I'm more boggled by this.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=chav&btnG=Search

Look at the sponsored link on the right hand side...!

[zotz]

Charming. "Come to our dating agency. We guarantee people as intolerant as yourself."

[lilitufire.livejournal.com]

And the hosting bills :)

This is sort of interesting:

http://www.chavworld.co.uk/new-identity/

I don't know, I didn't really think of chav as such a negative stereotype - in my head it's much more aspirational and more positive than the ned stereotype, although these sites equate the two.

I'd be interested to know if Burberry consider it a curse or a blessing (though it doesn't seem to be hurting their sales in Tokyo any).

[zotz]

Burberry aren't happy, apparently. They want to be a lot more upmarket, so they stopped making the caps a while back. Any new ones you see around now are fakes.

I didn't really think of chav as such a negative stereotype - in my head it's much more aspirational and more positive than the ned stereotype, although these sites equate the two.

Very much so. It's all quite poisonous.

[steer.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... having read the article, it's a guardian writer writing an article deploring an ex-guardian writer for defending a social group who are supposedly persecuted by guardian readers. Even by the high standards of weekend broadsheet journalism that article was so far up its own "analysing the analysis of the analysis arse" it should properly be read with an endoscope.

Paul Flynn:"Earth to Julie: Chavs do not want you as their saviour! They do not even know who you are."

Oh, the irony, it hurts my eyes.

[deliberateblank.livejournal.com]

Never used the term myself, but the fact that Julie Burchill says the same makes me think there might be something in it...

[zotz]

So the fact that Burchill used to work for GMEN means that she can't be criticised? Or is it the bit about them not knowing who she is that you think is wrong/lamentable? I don't understand what point you have here. In any case, he wasn't saying that she's wrong, but that she's irrelevant (which AFAICT was the majority view among writers and readers when she was with the paper anyway), and the main thrust of the article wasn't about her but about the sudden enthusiasm to see chavs everywhere - which I notice you haven't commented on at all.

defending a social group who are supposedly persecuted by guardian readers.

By Guardian readers? In my experience, it's not The Grauniad which prints articles about them.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nicolai_/]

I loathed and despised people who enjoy being antisocial, offensive, destructive and aggressive before there was this handy label for one set of them.

[zotz]

But if you wear Burberry and tracksuits and aren't any of those things, you'll still get called a chav. It's just not defined by behaviour any more - if it ever was. Several articles have claimed that it was popularised by Popbitch, who used it solely as a mark of poor taste (by their definition).

[steer.livejournal.com]

I don't understand what point you have here.

A guardian article saying that picking on chavs is wrong taking a side-swipe at Ms. Burchill because chavs don't know who she is... well, it's self-referential on so many levels.

he wasn't saying that she's wrong, but that she's irrelevant

I think my point was that he's certainly speaking from a position of experience on irrelevant.

the sudden enthusiasm to see chavs everywhere - which I notice you haven't commented on at all.

As a societal prejudice it strongly triggers my "couldn't care" reflex. It's not an issue I care enough to form a coherent opinion about. (The idea that it's a prejudice confined to the middle classes seems a typical middle-class self-loathing thing as I don't imagine that the working class feel much differently about chavs.) As for the chavs themselves, I just wish they'd stop smoking on my front step.

[zotz]

Thames estuary word, apparently, probably from Romany, and I believe it did previously imply someone was a thief. It only hit the mainstream once it had been extended to say that people were just cheap, though.

[nisaba.livejournal.com]

I do have a violent prejudice against burberry. And that includes the bottom-of-the-barrel council estate-living scum fake burberry wearers and the cream of the crop upper-class twat genuine burberry wearers.

How's that for middle-class snobbery? ;)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nicolai_/]

That's true.
Personally I apply the duck test; if it looks like a duck, I'll act like it might be a duck but it's not highly likely until it also quacks like a duck.
But if some burberry-and-white-trainer-clad young men with too much bling-bling around their neck get on the Tube in East London somewhere and swagger around talking loudly and misogynistically about women local to them, I'll freely label them 'chav' in my mind.

[rowan-leigh.livejournal.com]

Making me dodge their spit and dog poo on the pavement and trying to break my windows with their footballs are the behaviours I detest chavs for (and define them by.) Unfortunately, I found while living in a rather rough area of Southampton that this sort of behaviour and dressing like a chav are highly correlated.

I have a suspicion that the idea that chav-hatred is a middle-class phenomenon is classist in itself; there are surely working-class people who don't conform to the stereotype, and for people like that, having to live amongst them can be extremely isolating, or so I found it. (It doesn't help that they had a habit of laughing maniacally among themselves, and I always felt as though it was directed at me, even though it probably wasn't most of the time.)

[steer.livejournal.com]

Famous Burberry wearers include Audrey Hepburn in Breakfast at Tiffany's and Humphrey Bogart in Cassablanca. They also outfitted Shackleton's (and I think Amundsen's) antarctic expeditions.

[zotz]

A guardian article saying that picking on chavs is wrong taking a side-swipe at Ms. Burchill because chavs don't know who she is... well, it's self-referential on so many levels.

One level that I can see. And probably only that because he doesn't like her.

he's certainly speaking from a position of experience on irrelevant.

Because nobody's making any comments on the subject here, so obviously nobody cares?

It's not an issue I care enough to form a coherent opinion about.

Nobody's forcing you to comment, you know.

(The idea that it's a prejudice confined to the middle classes seems a typical middle-class self-loathing thing as I don't imagine that the working class feel much differently about chavs.)

Given that it's a fairly popular strain of working-class fashion and culture at the moment, I suspect you're wrong there.

[nisaba.livejournal.com]

Even if the day comes where David Bowie and Nick Cave are seen in burberry, the beige plaid will still give me nightmares.

[steer.livejournal.com]

Because nobody's making any comments on the subject here, so obviously nobody cares?

Because if chav's don't know who Julie Burchill is and don't want her as their saviour then that applies to the Nth power to the article writer whose name I have already forgotten.

it's a fairly popular strain of working-class fashion and culture at the moment, I suspect you're wrong there.

Ah... in the same way that the middle class must obviously like punks because so many punks are middle class.